“We’d rather take our marketing investment and be very, very specific, very targeted,” Carla Hassan, JPMorgan’s chief marketing officer, tells Fortune. Hassan, who cut her teeth in marketing at Kellogg, PepsiCo, Toys “R” Us, and Citi before joining JPMorgan in late 2021, says she has to walk a fine line between conveying financial competence and creative gratification when marketing the bank’s products and services.

An immigrant of Lebanese descent who came to the U.S. during the Gulf War, Hassan says the job of marketing chief is far more complex than when she was coming up. A CMO today must also be able to think like a chief product officer and a chief financial officer, even more so at an institution like JPMorgan Chase where products can be complex to create and to sell.

“If you’re a marketer today, and you are not intricately linked with the CFO, CEO, CPO, or CTO, you won’t be able to drive growth,” she says.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Fortune: As a marketing practitioner, what were the best Super Bowl ads this year?

Hassan: There were a couple. The Farmer’s Dog ad [a dog food commercial showing the companionship of a canine over a person‘s lifetime] tugged at my heartstrings, then brilliantly followed that up with, “Here’s the product, here’s the food.” I also liked the Google ad [about the Pixel 7 phone’s camera capabilities] that was practical and told me what the product does. Both are the kind of ads that will stick in people’s minds. 

What’s the formula for a successful Super Bowl ad? 

When I think about what makes a good ad—not just a good Super Bowl ad—it’s: What emotion does it drum up? Does it make you laugh? Does it make you cry? Does it upset you? The fact that people are still talking about the Farmer’s Dog ad for so long shows it was pretty successful.

Yet JPMorgan Chase has never advertised at the Super Bowl. Is it not a good fit?

Generally, it’s about whether we have enough news to share that warrants a moment in time with 100 million eyeballs on us. We ask ourselves, “What’s the objective of an ad, and what’s the message?” So far, the Super Bowl hasn’t necessarily been the right medium. We have so many different targets in terms of who we go after with our messaging and our array of products, and we’d rather take our marketing investment and be very, very specific, very targeted.

You’ve gone from consumer packaged goods to banking. So what skills did you get from those early stints?

As a consumer goods marketer, I cut my teeth in P&L management and developed a proper understanding of how to use marketing to drive the business. That set the foundation for my move to retail. While in consumer goods, I looked across the marketing landscape and asked myself what experience I needed to grow, and I thought, “Wouldn’t it be great if I could go to a struggling retail brand?” 

And so, in early 2017, you went to Toys “R” Us only six months before it sought bankruptcy protection. What did you get from that whole saga?

Retail was interesting for me as a marketer because it was my first time working with first-party data from the consumer directly and doing these loyalty programs. I really hoped we could change the trajectory of Toys “R” Us. It was also one of the first times I had taken a risk in my career. Generally as an immigrant, you try to stay with tried-and-true things because you don’t have options to fall back on. 

But that ultimately led you to the financial sector, where you landed at Citigroup and now JPMorgan Chase. How is marketing financial products different from promoting consumer goods?

The brands we have at JPMorgan Chase, whether JPMorgan or Chase, are incredibly powerful and meaningful to our consumers. There is not only the trust and the credibility factor but also the emotional piece of, “You have my money, and I trust you with the money I’ve worked hard for.” 

JPMorgan Chase has been around forever. How do you keep your marketing current?

Our trust and our credibility are what’s constant. But we also try to bring products in that are relevant to today. I’ll give you an example. Consumers today are nervous about scams, right? So we’ve focused our marketing efforts on fraud prevention and financial literacy.

Financial institutions can be stodgy. Forgive the candor, but I find many banking ads follow the same playbook, featuring some middle-aged man or a couple looking like country club members on a sailboat. Is there room for fun and creativity in your campaigns?

Very much so. In late 2021, we had an ad for the Chase Freedom credit card holiday campaign with comedian Kevin Hart and movie and television actress Catherine O’Hara to coincide with the 25th anniversary of the movie Home Alone. We had Kevin as the lost kid and Catherine O’Hara as his mom, so it was a culturally relevant moment. At the end of the day, your money is important, and it’s a serious matter, but there are moments when we can drive cultural relevance that brings humanity to our brand.

How is the CMO job today different from a generation ago? 

We could talk for an hour about just that, honestly. Here’s what I would say: One of the things that stands the test of time when it comes to marketing is if you are a marketer, you exist to drive business growth, full stop, end of story. There’s no doubt been an evolution, frankly, a revolution in the role of the CMO. It requires becoming more deeply ingrained in finance, risk, product, and technology. Some days I come in, and the hat I have on is like that of the chief product officer or the chief technology officer. If you’re a marketer today, and you are not intricately linked with the CFO, CEO, CPO, or CTO, you won’t be able to drive growth.

So how often do you speak with CEO Jamie Dimon?

All leaders have access to the entire operating committee, including Jamie, wherever we need it. I never feel like marketing is not supported or seen as a growth driver. We are constantly talking to our operating committee about what our marketing dollars are doing. 

I have an industry-agnostic complaint about marketing. We are bombarded with nonstop advertising, from inboxes overflowing with promotions to sports teams’ uniforms to subways plastered with ads. Can anyone really say advertising is directed and effective? 

We’re keeping up with the technology and learning as fast as possible. But my philosophy is we can’t just be empathic leaders. We’ve got to be empathic marketers, right? The single source of truth for a marketer is the customer, and when the customer is frustrated, we are not doing our jobs properly. 

How has growing up in war-torn Lebanon and later immigrating to Dubai and then the U.S. molded you?

When I was younger, I constantly fielded questions like, “Where’s this accent from? What is Dubai? What state is it in?” I felt prejudice, especially at the peak of the Gulf War. I remember days when I wished people would just ask me who I was. So for my entire career, I have majored in soft skills. Empathy is not just being nice to people. It’s putting yourself in other people’s shoes to understand what they’re going through and solve business problems.

Get to know Hassan:

• Hassan fled Lebanon with her family in the 1980s as a child and spent time in Dubai before immigrating to the United States as a teen because of the Gulf War.
• She is a classically trained pianist and has dabbled in composition.
• Her mother tongue is Arabic, and she says she often dreams in Arabic. “I’m very proud to be an Arab woman. I’m very proud to be an immigrant.”